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	<title>Comments on: content packaging tech explosion</title>
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	<link>http://gonze.com/blog/2009/09/01/content-packaging-tech-explosion/</link>
	<description>internet music technology</description>
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		<title>By: MAFF standardization project bootstraps &#8212; Lucas Gonze&#8217;s blog</title>
		<link>http://gonze.com/blog/2009/09/01/content-packaging-tech-explosion/comment-page-1/#comment-4790</link>
		<dc:creator>MAFF standardization project bootstraps &#8212; Lucas Gonze&#8217;s blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gonze.com/blog/?p=1955#comment-4790</guid>
		<description>[...] content packaging tech explosion [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] content packaging tech explosion [...]</p>
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		<title>By: P.A.</title>
		<link>http://gonze.com/blog/2009/09/01/content-packaging-tech-explosion/comment-page-1/#comment-3879</link>
		<dc:creator>P.A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gonze.com/blog/?p=1955#comment-3879</guid>
		<description>Hello,

I&#039;m the current maintainer of the MAF extension, that provides support for the MAFF format in Firefox. Sull invited me to this thread and I found it really insightful. I may add some more information, and since MAFF is potentially an evolving format, I welcome any input that may help to shape its future.

http://maf.mozdev.org/maff-file-format.html

Sull already provided valuable input, making me think about MAFF as a media packaging format, and the latest MAF 0.15.1provides an interesting feature that&#039;s peculiar to ZIP compression (compared, for instance, to .tar.gz of the KDE war format): OGG files are stored without re-compressing them.

Thanks to this, audio and video in a large MAFF+OGG file are seekable in real-time exactly like a standalone OGG file.

The only strict design goals for MAFF are (1) to be very easy to use and implement, and (2) to be based on existing and widely-used technologies. Backwards compatibility with the existing implementation is also very important.

At present, MAFF archives can be multi-page, but the basic atom is the &quot;page&quot;. Each &quot;page&quot; may be updated or used independently from the others.

Optional metadata (currently stored as RDF/XML) may link each &quot;page&quot; in the archive to an original location (URL) that can be queried for updated versions of the entire &quot;page&quot;, if desired. The root document may link to other resources in the archived &quot;page&quot;, through relative URLs, or to remote URLs, indifferently. All the local resources are &quot;owned&quot; exclusively by the &quot;page&quot;.

If no original location is specified, it currently just means that the file was authored as a standalone package to begin with.

The MAF extension does not support remote MAFF files, at present, but Firefox can access any remote ZIP file using the &quot;jar:&quot; protocol. In this case, I think the caching headers of the MAFF/ZIP file itself are used to check if updated versions of the remote archive exists. That&#039;s different from using the original location in the archive&#039;s metadata to check for updated versions of a &quot;page&quot;.

I hope to have answered some of the questions and not just created confusion :-) I welcome your comments. If you&#039;re interested in MAF and MAFF development, there&#039;s also a mailing list on mozdev.org (it&#039;s used mainly for support questions but it&#039;s also the appropriate place for file format and general inquiries).

Paolo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m the current maintainer of the MAF extension, that provides support for the MAFF format in Firefox. Sull invited me to this thread and I found it really insightful. I may add some more information, and since MAFF is potentially an evolving format, I welcome any input that may help to shape its future.</p>
<p><a href="http://maf.mozdev.org/maff-file-format.html" rel="nofollow">http://maf.mozdev.org/maff-file-format.html</a></p>
<p>Sull already provided valuable input, making me think about MAFF as a media packaging format, and the latest MAF 0.15.1provides an interesting feature that&#8217;s peculiar to ZIP compression (compared, for instance, to .tar.gz of the KDE war format): OGG files are stored without re-compressing them.</p>
<p>Thanks to this, audio and video in a large MAFF+OGG file are seekable in real-time exactly like a standalone OGG file.</p>
<p>The only strict design goals for MAFF are (1) to be very easy to use and implement, and (2) to be based on existing and widely-used technologies. Backwards compatibility with the existing implementation is also very important.</p>
<p>At present, MAFF archives can be multi-page, but the basic atom is the &#8220;page&#8221;. Each &#8220;page&#8221; may be updated or used independently from the others.</p>
<p>Optional metadata (currently stored as RDF/XML) may link each &#8220;page&#8221; in the archive to an original location (URL) that can be queried for updated versions of the entire &#8220;page&#8221;, if desired. The root document may link to other resources in the archived &#8220;page&#8221;, through relative URLs, or to remote URLs, indifferently. All the local resources are &#8220;owned&#8221; exclusively by the &#8220;page&#8221;.</p>
<p>If no original location is specified, it currently just means that the file was authored as a standalone package to begin with.</p>
<p>The MAF extension does not support remote MAFF files, at present, but Firefox can access any remote ZIP file using the &#8220;jar:&#8221; protocol. In this case, I think the caching headers of the MAFF/ZIP file itself are used to check if updated versions of the remote archive exists. That&#8217;s different from using the original location in the archive&#8217;s metadata to check for updated versions of a &#8220;page&#8221;.</p>
<p>I hope to have answered some of the questions and not just created confusion :-) I welcome your comments. If you&#8217;re interested in MAF and MAFF development, there&#8217;s also a mailing list on mozdev.org (it&#8217;s used mainly for support questions but it&#8217;s also the appropriate place for file format and general inquiries).</p>
<p>Paolo</p>
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		<title>By: Lucas Gonze</title>
		<link>http://gonze.com/blog/2009/09/01/content-packaging-tech-explosion/comment-page-1/#comment-3841</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucas Gonze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gonze.com/blog/?p=1955#comment-3841</guid>
		<description>Single-site apps  of the kind you get with Fluid are somewhere in the mix here too.

Bob, I&#039;d love that too.  Hand a reader a zip file and say &quot;here it is, you know what to do.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Single-site apps  of the kind you get with Fluid are somewhere in the mix here too.</p>
<p>Bob, I&#8217;d love that too.  Hand a reader a zip file and say &#8220;here it is, you know what to do.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: gurdonark</title>
		<link>http://gonze.com/blog/2009/09/01/content-packaging-tech-explosion/comment-page-1/#comment-3836</link>
		<dc:creator>gurdonark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gonze.com/blog/?p=1955#comment-3836</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d love to see a simple open source software bit of &quot;reader&quot; hardware that lets me take a winzip or .rar of a gutenberg.org book and read it all kindly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d love to see a simple open source software bit of &#8220;reader&#8221; hardware that lets me take a winzip or .rar of a gutenberg.org book and read it all kindly.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sull</title>
		<link>http://gonze.com/blog/2009/09/01/content-packaging-tech-explosion/comment-page-1/#comment-3835</link>
		<dc:creator>sull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 02:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gonze.com/blog/?p=1955#comment-3835</guid>
		<description>I would not count on other browsers supporting .maff although the plugin does also create mhtml which extends its usage to IE and i think a a few other browsers?  Ideally, it would be great if MAFF or something like it was a standard across all browsers but I&#039;m guessing that this takes us right down the road of file format control and spec preference.  They will advance or create new formats to do what MAFF already does and go into the areas that we are talking about with media packaging.  Sony and Apple are already releasing such tech as Lucas mentioned in his post.  
Not to mention the name Mozilla Archive Format as being supported by Safari, Chrome, IE?  Like everything, there is a game to play.

Luckily, Firefox is very pervasive at this point.  Even if you dont use it, its easy enough to install and use when you need to (ie. loading a maff file).  And of course, being a ZIP file, you can just extract the files.  

What I would also like to explore is building a tool to create MAF files outside of Firefox.  I did this when Mozilla Prism came out a few years ago.  I created a bookmarklet connected to a little web service that generated Prism WebApps on-the-fly.  
This was immediately after Prism was announced so their was no FF integration like their is today.  But even with that, I liked the idea of a having a stand-alone Prism browser installed on mac or windows and being able to make Prism WebApps from Safari, Chrome, IE, Opera etc.  
The same thing can be achieved with MAF and any other ZIP based archive format.  

http://prismspectrum.com/bookmarklet

It would also be nice to open MAFF with a lighter version of FF.  Posibly even the mobile browser fennec.
https://wiki.mozilla.org/fennec</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would not count on other browsers supporting .maff although the plugin does also create mhtml which extends its usage to IE and i think a a few other browsers?  Ideally, it would be great if MAFF or something like it was a standard across all browsers but I&#8217;m guessing that this takes us right down the road of file format control and spec preference.  They will advance or create new formats to do what MAFF already does and go into the areas that we are talking about with media packaging.  Sony and Apple are already releasing such tech as Lucas mentioned in his post.<br />
Not to mention the name Mozilla Archive Format as being supported by Safari, Chrome, IE?  Like everything, there is a game to play.</p>
<p>Luckily, Firefox is very pervasive at this point.  Even if you dont use it, its easy enough to install and use when you need to (ie. loading a maff file).  And of course, being a ZIP file, you can just extract the files.  </p>
<p>What I would also like to explore is building a tool to create MAF files outside of Firefox.  I did this when Mozilla Prism came out a few years ago.  I created a bookmarklet connected to a little web service that generated Prism WebApps on-the-fly.<br />
This was immediately after Prism was announced so their was no FF integration like their is today.  But even with that, I liked the idea of a having a stand-alone Prism browser installed on mac or windows and being able to make Prism WebApps from Safari, Chrome, IE, Opera etc.<br />
The same thing can be achieved with MAF and any other ZIP based archive format.  </p>
<p><a href="http://prismspectrum.com/bookmarklet" rel="nofollow">http://prismspectrum.com/bookmarklet</a></p>
<p>It would also be nice to open MAFF with a lighter version of FF.  Posibly even the mobile browser fennec.<br />
<a href="https://wiki.mozilla.org/fennec" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.mozilla.org/fennec</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jay Fienberg</title>
		<link>http://gonze.com/blog/2009/09/01/content-packaging-tech-explosion/comment-page-1/#comment-3834</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Fienberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 21:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gonze.com/blog/?p=1955#comment-3834</guid>
		<description>(I don&#039;t know if this is getting beyond the scope of what&#039;s good to do in a comment thread--I&#039;d be into brainstorming around this more, if that&#039;s fun / useful.)

Part of my thought about this is that there&#039;s a progressive experience that goes from basic, static, HTML web page *about* a song (or album), to a functional song (or album) experience as a standalone file (say MAFF), to a fully functional song (or album) experience in one&#039;s music library. So, that&#039;s an opposite / positive way of describing graceful degradation.

When there&#039;s a URL on the page in a link, that works in any browser. But, in the awesome player / library, that URL is something special to process with wget, and then (in some cases) to override with a local path to the downloaded file.

So, I would imagine the &quot;format&quot; part to follow a few basic style conventions that can be parsed by the player / library for unique features of the software, like file download or quick summary info popups.

I definitely think the software is the more interesting / challenging thing to work on, mostly because there are so many interactions &quot;beyond-Winamp&quot; that become possible, that can be explored and played with.

But, at a core &quot;engine&quot;-level, the software is maybe just managing a directory of MAFF, extracting data and info from the song / album HTML, maintaining a database of corresponding data / info (e.g., play count, track relationships, my tags, etc.), downloading / uploading / transferring media files, and downloading / uploading / transferring / importing / exporting parts of the library database.

Not super trivial, but I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a big puzzle to the engine -- the puzzle is in the new interactions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(I don&#8217;t know if this is getting beyond the scope of what&#8217;s good to do in a comment thread&#8211;I&#8217;d be into brainstorming around this more, if that&#8217;s fun / useful.)</p>
<p>Part of my thought about this is that there&#8217;s a progressive experience that goes from basic, static, HTML web page *about* a song (or album), to a functional song (or album) experience as a standalone file (say MAFF), to a fully functional song (or album) experience in one&#8217;s music library. So, that&#8217;s an opposite / positive way of describing graceful degradation.</p>
<p>When there&#8217;s a URL on the page in a link, that works in any browser. But, in the awesome player / library, that URL is something special to process with wget, and then (in some cases) to override with a local path to the downloaded file.</p>
<p>So, I would imagine the &#8220;format&#8221; part to follow a few basic style conventions that can be parsed by the player / library for unique features of the software, like file download or quick summary info popups.</p>
<p>I definitely think the software is the more interesting / challenging thing to work on, mostly because there are so many interactions &#8220;beyond-Winamp&#8221; that become possible, that can be explored and played with.</p>
<p>But, at a core &#8220;engine&#8221;-level, the software is maybe just managing a directory of MAFF, extracting data and info from the song / album HTML, maintaining a database of corresponding data / info (e.g., play count, track relationships, my tags, etc.), downloading / uploading / transferring media files, and downloading / uploading / transferring / importing / exporting parts of the library database.</p>
<p>Not super trivial, but I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a big puzzle to the engine &#8212; the puzzle is in the new interactions.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lucas Gonze</title>
		<link>http://gonze.com/blog/2009/09/01/content-packaging-tech-explosion/comment-page-1/#comment-3833</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucas Gonze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gonze.com/blog/?p=1955#comment-3833</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have a clear picture of what needs to be a new protocol and what is pure software.

For example, I could see a portable media document as a pair consisting of (1) the URL of the top card in the deck, which is an HTML document at the root of the tree and (2) a set of arguments for &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wget&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wget&lt;/a&gt; to mirror the page.  Then wget is the non-generic software doing the lifting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have a clear picture of what needs to be a new protocol and what is pure software.</p>
<p>For example, I could see a portable media document as a pair consisting of (1) the URL of the top card in the deck, which is an HTML document at the root of the tree and (2) a set of arguments for <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wget" rel="nofollow">wget</a> to mirror the page.  Then wget is the non-generic software doing the lifting.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Fienberg</title>
		<link>http://gonze.com/blog/2009/09/01/content-packaging-tech-explosion/comment-page-1/#comment-3832</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Fienberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 17:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gonze.com/blog/?p=1955#comment-3832</guid>
		<description>Sounds good -- I am starting to see little downside to MAF in these scenarios. Obviously, getting native support for MAF in other browsers and even at the OS level (e.g., click on MAF opens in default browser) would be ideal.

I wonder if Firefox can read a MAF file hosted on a web server (i.e., via a non-FILE URL --HTTP, FTP)?  Have to try that. If not, that&#039;d be a nice feature to add (feature or add-on) to browsers.

So, part of the idea of a &quot;HTML card&quot; is that, even though one would have to have a player / library to do really cool things, the pure HTML can provide an experience that gracefully degrades, but is still usable in any browser / email program.

With MAF, maybe that fallback is absent in some cases (e.g., where Firefox is not present).

Still, all of this is about introducing new behaviors / scenarios that people embrace, and I can imagine that getting people to unzip MAFFs is not necessarily a huge hurdle. 

And, of course, for some of us who use Firefox all the time already, no hurdle!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds good &#8212; I am starting to see little downside to MAF in these scenarios. Obviously, getting native support for MAF in other browsers and even at the OS level (e.g., click on MAF opens in default browser) would be ideal.</p>
<p>I wonder if Firefox can read a MAF file hosted on a web server (i.e., via a non-FILE URL &#8211;HTTP, FTP)?  Have to try that. If not, that&#8217;d be a nice feature to add (feature or add-on) to browsers.</p>
<p>So, part of the idea of a &#8220;HTML card&#8221; is that, even though one would have to have a player / library to do really cool things, the pure HTML can provide an experience that gracefully degrades, but is still usable in any browser / email program.</p>
<p>With MAF, maybe that fallback is absent in some cases (e.g., where Firefox is not present).</p>
<p>Still, all of this is about introducing new behaviors / scenarios that people embrace, and I can imagine that getting people to unzip MAFFs is not necessarily a huge hurdle. </p>
<p>And, of course, for some of us who use Firefox all the time already, no hurdle!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lucas Gonze</title>
		<link>http://gonze.com/blog/2009/09/01/content-packaging-tech-explosion/comment-page-1/#comment-3831</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucas Gonze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gonze.com/blog/?p=1955#comment-3831</guid>
		<description>http://maf.mozdev.org/

&quot;
MAFF files are standard ZIP files containing one or more web pages, images, or other downloadable content.

For example, you can save to disk all the open tabs at once in a single MAFF file.
&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://maf.mozdev.org/" rel="nofollow">http://maf.mozdev.org/</a></p>
<p>&#8221;<br />
MAFF files are standard ZIP files containing one or more web pages, images, or other downloadable content.</p>
<p>For example, you can save to disk all the open tabs at once in a single MAFF file.<br />
&#8220;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lucas Gonze</title>
		<link>http://gonze.com/blog/2009/09/01/content-packaging-tech-explosion/comment-page-1/#comment-3828</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucas Gonze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 06:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gonze.com/blog/?p=1955#comment-3828</guid>
		<description>So the key is precisely that it&#039;s not an archive, and the player/library manages caching of leaf resoures per its own convenience?  

In that vision, there would still not be a file-of-files abstraction in web architecture.  MAF and similar things would grab this pivot page and whatever they needed to render it in an offline context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the key is precisely that it&#8217;s not an archive, and the player/library manages caching of leaf resoures per its own convenience?  </p>
<p>In that vision, there would still not be a file-of-files abstraction in web architecture.  MAF and similar things would grab this pivot page and whatever they needed to render it in an offline context.</p>
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